DATE and TIME TAKEN

Advanced Renamer forum
#1 : 03/03-18 23:10
Duncan
Duncan
Posts: 14
Good afternoon all,

I seem unable to use the tag DATE and TIME TAKEN , is this not suppoted ?

Please advice

Thanks

D


03/03-18 23:10
#2 : 04/03-18 17:36
Kim Jensen
Kim Jensen
Administrator
Posts: 798
Reply to #1:
Can you explain in more detail what you do and what results you expect?


04/03-18 17:36
#3 : 04/03-18 21:03
Duncan
Duncan
Posts: 14
Hi Kim,

Thanks for taken the time looking into this

Al my photos have the tag DATE TAKEN in the EXIF , this includes the date and time.

Example: https://s18.postimg.org/vg52vabft/123.jpg

I tried using the the Image Tags ...

Example: https://postimg.org/image/b8rn373qd/166378c4/

.... to include date and time taken in the file name. But for many (not all) the result is incorrect, although those photos do have the DATE TAKEN EXIF data.

Duncan


04/03-18 21:03 - edited 04/03-18 21:04
#4 : 05/03-18 00:54
Mark
Mark
Posts: 175
Reply to #3:
Any chance of sharing an example image, to try here ...?


05/03-18 00:54
#5 : 05/03-18 08:02
Duncan
Duncan
Posts: 14
good morning,

Thanks for getting back to me.

Does your question mean it is unknown what Advanced Renamer variable is equal to DATE TAKEN ?

D


05/03-18 08:02
#6 : 05/03-18 09:40
Mark
Mark
Posts: 175
Reply to #5:
No.

I would like to help, and with Exif type issues, it sometimes helps to see and use a example that is causing an issue.

AR should have no problem reading Exif date/time values, at least in my experience.


05/03-18 09:40
#7 : 05/03-18 22:55
Duncan
Duncan
Posts: 14
I will upload a picture when I get home.

In the mean time, what AR Variable is equal to the EXIF DATE TAKEN ?

D


05/03-18 22:55 - edited 05/03-18 22:56
#8 : 05/03-18 23:12
Duncan
Duncan
Posts: 14
Just uploaded example image to ...

https://1drv.ms/f/s!Aj8hm7Xwo3lykDwVjvcS03OhiTx2

D


05/03-18 23:12
#9 : 06/03-18 00:51
Mark
Mark
Posts: 175
Reply to #8:
Thanks.

OK, so the file looks good.

Filename = 20180303-202431.jpg
Exif Date Taken = 2018-03-02 18-43-17 (my use of the "-" to help my eyes)

I dragged that file into AR, applied a New Name Method:

<Img Year>-<Img Month>-<Img Day> <Img Hour>-<Img Min>-<Img Sec>

and the main window shows me the New Filename as 2018-03-02 18-43-17.jpg

If I right-click the main window columns, one of the options is to show Date Taken, which is shown as 02/03/2018 18:43:17.49. Clicking the file in the main window also pops up basic Exif info in the bottom part of the main screen.

This seems to be what you want. What do get if follow the same procedure?

Mark

ps, with regard to your question: In the mean time, what AR Variable is equal to the EXIF DATE TAKEN ?

https://www.advancedrenamer.com/user_guide/tags_ image

So, Image Tags is the right place ....


06/03-18 00:51 - edited 06/03-18 00:57
#10 : 06/03-18 07:58
Duncan
Duncan
Posts: 14
Good morning All,

Thanks for your investigation and reply Mark.

The filename was already the renamed one, but when using AR again this is hat I get ...

Screenshot: https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aj8hm7Xwo3lykEFVhsXQSJYVc2rm

As you suggested I also right clicked the columns in the main window and selected DATE TAKEN. The AR New File name matches the DATE TAKEN that AR indicates.
But it seems AR is reading another DATE TAKEN. One that is in my opinion not correct (about 1 day off) and also different than the properties of the photo indicate.

Also uploaded the photo to http://metapicz.com/#landing
It seems AR is using what this site lists as Create Date.

Find all the pictures used in this thread over here: https://1drv.ms/f/s!Aj8hm7Xwo3lykDwVjvcS03OhiTx2

D



06/03-18 07:58 - edited 06/03-18 08:21
#11 : 06/03-18 10:00
Mark
Mark
Posts: 175
Reply to #10:
I’ll have to look at this later when I can access the links.

When I look at the image you sent, the Exif shows:

Date Time (or Taken): 2018:03:02 18:43:17
Date Time Original: 2018:03:02 18:43:17
Date Time Digitized: 2018:03:03 20:24:31 (which is the name of the file).

The three time formats are dictated by the Exchangeable Image File format (EXIF) standard. That standard outlines three date/time data points.

Date/Time - the date and time a file was last updated
Date/Time Original - the date and time an image was taken
Date/Time Digitized - the date and time the image was stored as digital information

On most cameras the Date/Time Original and Date/Time Digitized are the same. This is not the case with your image, of course.

Now it depends what you want. It looks like you took the picture on the 2nd, the light is about right for 18:43 GMT (my assumption). It does not look like it was taken at 20:24 GMT on the 3rd.

AR has a tag for Date Taken. It does not look like it has one for Date Digitized. You may have to email Kim directly, please feedback whatever you find).

Mark

Ps, I’ve just noticed something …. When I drag the file into AR on another PC, all the “Date Taken” times are the 2018:03:03 20:24:31 …… how very strange. I will double check, but I have no explanation for that.


06/03-18 10:00
#12 : 06/03-18 10:08
Duncan
Duncan
Posts: 14
Hi Mark,

Thanks for all the information.

Photo was taken around 17:43 on the second of March. London UK time. But I assume the camera was still on Amsterdam NL time, where it is 1 hr later.


06/03-18 10:08 - edited 06/03-18 10:10
#13 : 06/03-18 11:49
Mark
Mark
Posts: 175
Reply to #12:
And the date you want AR to use it exactly that, the date/time you actually took the picture?

(and how PCs etc manage and present summer/winter times is another problem altogether!)


06/03-18 11:49
#14 : 06/03-18 14:11
Duncan
Duncan
Posts: 14
I would AR to use the Date and Time as indicted in below image.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aj8hm7Xwo3lykEW9Uy8M1x7AxrzX

These are the Windows10 file properties , is the correct time and is also the time indicated by the camera the picture was taken.


06/03-18 14:11 - edited 06/03-18 14:14
#15 : 06/03-18 14:15
Mark
Mark
Posts: 175
Reply to #14:
I can't access those yet ....

Considering the image you sent, you want AR to use 2018:03:02 18:43:17.

Correct?

Mark


06/03-18 14:15
#16 : 06/03-18 18:02
Duncan
Duncan
Posts: 14
Correct

D

PS: Can I post images inline ?


06/03-18 18:02
#17 : 07/03-18 00:18
Mark
Mark
Posts: 175
Reply to #16:
Images: not in this Forum, as far as I know.

I have come across something strange. (Kim, I hope you're reading this, but I'll email ....)

Home PC, AR v3,81, installed. Date Taken shows as 2018:03:02 18:43:17
Work PC, AR v3.81 installed as Portable. Date Taken shows as 2018:03:03 20:24:31
When I run the Portable version at home, I get the same thing, 2018:03:03 20:24:31.

So I investigated, and there was a globalsettings.ini file in the Portable root folder (but not in the installed version), containing just the text:
[globalsettings]
location=1

I deleted this file and Hey! Presto! AR shows the correct Date Taken.

So, I ask you, are you running AR from a folder, or have you installed it? Go look for that globalsettings.ini file and delete it … see what happens.

Of course, the above may not be related to your issue. I have no other ideas at the moment …..

Mark





07/03-18 00:18
#18 : 07/03-18 00:48
Duncan
Duncan
Posts: 14
Wow, you are digging deep.

I have installed the free version 3.81

Hidden files and system files are visible in Win10 file explorer, but globalsettings.ini is nowhere to be found.

Only ini files in the AR (sub)directory that I can see are:
- columnsets.ini
- columnsets-folders.ini


07/03-18 00:48 - edited 07/03-18 00:54
#19 : 07/03-18 06:47
Mark
Mark
Posts: 175
Reply to #18:
Well, it was a long shot. Less digging deep than finding my own issue out of yours!

I've emailed Kim asking him to cast an eye over this. I can't think why your AR isn't picking up the right Exif data .....



07/03-18 06:47
#20 : 07/03-18 11:56
Mark
Mark
Posts: 175
Reply to #19:
Red Herring alert!

The issue I referred to above is not entirely right. When deleting the Portable globalsettings.ini file, I think AR reverted to settings that were actually in place from the installed version.

On my work PC, I had downloaded and installed the AR portable version. It clearly shows on your file (and on one of mine that I edited the Exif) that it is using Date Digitized instead of Date Taken.

And the reason .... my settings say so! Doh! Don't know how that got changed.

Look at Program/Settings/Image Files, EXIF-field for image date time operations

Image files can have up to three different timestamps stored in the Exif informations. Use this option to choose which value you want Advanced Renamer should use when reading file information.

https://www.advancedrenamer.com/user_guide/setti ngs_imagefiles

Hopefully, that's your issue. We have both learnt something, eh?!


07/03-18 11:56 - edited 07/03-18 13:45
#21 : 07/03-18 12:11
Mark
Mark
Posts: 175
Reply to #20:
I think there is something else going on, ref EXIF Date Taken vs Date Modified, and will start a new thread .... which will happen later ....

In the meantime, given what I think is correct, I advise you to set AR's Program/Settings/Image Files, EXIF-field for image date time operations to Date original.


07/03-18 12:11 - edited 07/03-18 13:46
#22 : 07/03-18 21:22
Kim Jensen
Kim Jensen
Administrator
Posts: 798
Dates and times are tricky. Sometimes time zones and daylight savings time mess things up. Your computer, does it have the same time zone settings as your camera? I think it might try to compensate, but do it wrong when the computer and the camera don't agree on the zone (and DST).

Have you tried changing the value of "EXIF field for image date time operations" to "ExifTool DateOriginal" on the image tab in the settings window?


07/03-18 21:22
#23 : 08/03-18 00:48
Mark
Mark
Posts: 175
Reply to #22:
Hi Kim,

A time zone issue would show itself by a whole number of hours difference ....

When I used "ExifTool DateOriginal", AR's Date Taken stayed blank. Indeed, that happened with both of the "ExifTool" options.

We'll know more when the OP let's us know, but this whole issue has raised a concern, so I'll start another post "What is AR's "Date Taken"?"


08/03-18 00:48 - edited 08/03-18 00:58
#24 : 08/03-18 16:40
Mark
Mark
Posts: 175
Reply to #23:
Hi Duncan,

Have you solved your problem? Please update :)


08/03-18 16:40
#25 : 08/03-18 20:11
Duncan
Duncan
Posts: 14
Hi all,

This image clearly shows two different DATE TAKEN for the same image:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aj8hm7Xwo3lykjwJoWKP1A32z49K
The pop-up was generated by right-clicking the image name from within AR and choosing properties.

I did notice the tag <ExifTool:tagname> but could not find a list what to use as tagname:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aj8hm7Xwo3lykj2NyUJVkHJ3-4UX

D


PS: Find all the pictures I used in this thread over here: https://1drv.ms/f/s!Aj8hm7Xwo3lykDwVjvcS03OhiTx2


08/03-18 20:11 - edited 08/03-18 20:34
#26 : 08/03-18 20:54
Mark
Mark
Posts: 175
Reply to #25:
OK, I hear you, but I need to ask:

• What are your settings for Program/Settings/Image Files/EXIF-field for image date time operations?

• If it isn’t “Date original”, set it to that choice

• Re-start AR

• Drag in the file you sent me, 20180303-202431.jpg

• What does the main window show in the column “Date Taken”?

• Select the file in the main window; what does it say near the bottom, in the ExifTool area, for “Date Taken”?

• Select the Metadata tab; in the metadata field, select DateTimeOriginal. What does it show in the two value boxes?

To answer your <ExifTool:tagname>, best advice is to click "Tag Documentation" link ...

https://www.advancedrenamer.com/user_guide/tags_ advanced

<ExifTool:VALUE> Insert value from the external program ExifTool. VALUE is the name of the ExifTool tag to be used.

Select the file, click ExifTool, at the bottom. The Filexxx dates are local computer values. Scroll down further, select DateTimeOriginal and the Tag will appear in the box, then you can copy it for use in your Rename Method.

So for you, it's <ExifTool:DateTimeOriginal>

I tried it when AR shows "Date Taken" incorrectly, and it DOES take the correct Exif data to give 2018_03_02 18_43_17.jpg, But there's no format control and would need a second Method to clean it up to suit your requirements, as follows:

Replace Method
Text to be replaced: _
Replace with:-

But first, please let me know what you get for the steps above.

Mark


08/03-18 20:54 - edited 08/03-18 21:10
#27 : 31/03-18 12:39
Duncan
Duncan
Posts: 14
> What are your settings for Program/Settings/Image Files/EXIF-field
> for image date time operations?

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aj8hm7Xwo3lyoCvJJHoYVxnhdWvj

> If it isn’t “Date original”, set it to that choice

Ok. Seems that standard install of AR comes with the incorrect settings. So I changed it as you recommended.

> What does the main window show in the column “Date Taken”?

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aj8hm7Xwo3lyoCzhR9lX2YH3SfXr

Now shows the correct date + time the image was taken.

> Select the file in the main window; what does it say near the bottom,
> in the ExifTool area, for “Date Taken”?

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aj8hm7Xwo3lyoC1TSSdmHc1QiqMT

Now shows the correct date + time the image was taken.



Seems the wrong standard setting was causing the problem.

Thanks for finding that out Mark ! ! ! ! I already was ready to scrap AR. Glad did not.


So now I should be able to use the tag "IMG_<Img Year><Img Month><Img Day>_<Img Hour><Img Min><Img Sec>" and get a result with the correct Date and Time taken ?

For the test I did with this file (see below) it seems all ok ! (Note for people who have only 12 hrs in a day .... 6PM is same as 18hrs)

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aj8hm7Xwo3lyoC6Gvwur8rLHn7OD


One other intersting question is. Did my install set the DATE TAKEN incorrect or must I somehow have done that myself ?

D



31/03-18 12:39 - edited 31/03-18 12:47
#28 : 31/03-18 22:26
Mark
Mark
Posts: 175
Reply to #27:
Hi Duncan,

Thanks for closing the loop .... I thought you'd given up on AR!

So, all is now OK. With “Date original” set, you should be able to use the Image tags as you expect.

See https://www.advancedrenamer.com/user_guide/setti ngs_imagefiles

EXIF-field for image date time operations
Image files can have up to three different timestamps stored in the Exif informations. Use this option to choose which value you want Advanced Renamer should use when reading file information.
Default: Date taken

So no, you didn't change anything, out-of-the-box, AR will use "Date Taken". But that can give incorrect date/time information, equivalent to the Exif " Date Modified". I have raised this in a Forum post https://www.advancedrenamer.com/forum_thread?for um_id=4968 and emailed Kim directly.

I assume he is busy with other things as I've not had a reply to either.

In the meantime, you are aware and know what to do!

Regards,

Mark


31/03-18 22:26
#29 : 01/04-18 00:12
Duncan
Duncan
Posts: 14
> So no, you didn't change anything, out-of-the-box, AR will use "Date Taken".

So what changed my setting ? Any ideas ?

Because AR was not using DATE TAKEN.

D


01/04-18 00:12
#30 : 01/04-18 11:30
Mark
Mark
Posts: 175
Reply to #29:
Oh yes, you showed it was "Date digitized" ....

Probably got changed when we were in discussion, maybe you changed it without remembering, It doesn't matter really, though. The key thing is that "Date taken" may give you the wrong outcome, so "Date original" should be used as the Exif representation of the actual date/time the image was taken.

For info (and copied from the other post, ref above):

Date/Time

There's a lot of confusion about date/time handling. In addition to a variety of date/time values stored within a file's metadata, creation and modification values are also stored by the file system - both the computer's file system and that of a camera's media card.

In general, date/time metadata is being used to describe the following scenarios:

* Date/time original specifies when a photo was taken
* Date/time digitized specifies when an image was digitized
* Date/time modified specifies when a file was modified by the user

Date/time original and date/time digitized are usually added by the devices (cameras, scanners, etc.) but in other scenarios the user needs to define these values manually. This can happen, for example, if an old photograph is scanned-in (digitized) and the user wishes to specify in the metadata the date the original photo was taken. The date/time modified value will be changed by software and operating systems on subsequent edits of the file.


01/04-18 11:30
#31 : 01/04-18 17:42
Duncan
Duncan
Posts: 14
So basically out of the box AR comes with the incorrect setting ?

Perhaps this should be fixed in the next update.


01/04-18 17:42
#32 : 01/04-18 21:37
Mark
Mark
Posts: 175
Reply to #31:
I don't really know what "Date Taken" means .... as explained above, it doesn't seem to fit in with the Exif values .... and as "Date Original" is also one of AR's options, it implies that "Date Taken" must be something different.

Until the author, Kim, gets involved, the puzzle remains.


01/04-18 21:37
#33 : 21/05-18 11:14
Peter Malling
Peter Malling
Posts: 4
Reply to #32:
This is exactly the conclusion I came to as well.
https://www.advancedrenamer.com/forum_thread?for um_id=5230

I'm also wondering why there is both a "Date original" and an "Exiftool DateOriginal".

They seem to return the same value.

BR Peter

----------
/Peter Malling, Denmark


21/05-18 11:14
#34 : 21/05-18 13:14
Mark
Mark
Posts: 175
Reply to #33:
It's not clear, is it?

Not speaking for Kim, the author, but what I can make out is that the Exif support has somewhat developed as a result of requests, and is not fully supported/finalised. The is some talk of a re-write that will enhance this area, but my conclusion at present is that AR is not truly capable of WRITING Exif other than via manual and rather clunky techniques.

I do use this feature to READ Exif and set file attributes etc, no problem.


21/05-18 13:14